How To Supercharge Your Email Prospecting With Jason Bay

Reading Time: 22 minutes

Why aren’t your email blasts converting? This week on Digital Conversations, Jason Bay, Chief Prospecting Officer at Blissful Prospecting, lays out his framework for email prospecting, and how simply tweaking your messaging can boost your lead inflow. The premise of his framework is based on empathetic and careful outreach.

Guest: Jason found his passion for sales when he worked door-to-door for a painting company when he was 18. Fast-forward to 2020, and Jason is an outbound sales coach at Blissful Marketing, where he advises businesses and individuals on multi-channel outreach. Connect with Jason on LinkedIn here!

Listening Platforms:

 

 

Transcript

Billy: Alright everyone, welcome to Digital Conversations. I’m your host, Billy Bateman, and today I am joined by Jason Bay, not Michael Bay. The Chief Prospecting Officer at  Blissful Prospecting. Jason, thanks for joining me, man.

Jason: I’m excited to be on dude. There’s also a baseball player, apparently whose name was Jason Bay, and I get that at the airport all the time. Like, are you the baseball player? Like, dude, I don’t look anything like him. Okay, first off. But no, I’m not the baseball player.

Billy: Who’d the baseball player play for?

Jason: He was pretty popular. Apparently he played for the Pirates. And then I think he ended his career with the Yankees.

Billy: I’m not a Yankees guy. So whoever plays the Yankees is who I cheer for usually. Okay, well, let’s get into it. First, before we get going. We’re going to talk about your prospecting framework. But tell us about yourself and  Blissful Prospecting

.

Jason: Yeah, I mean, essentially what we do is help reps and sales teams that really love landing new big meetings, but hate it when they go to spend all this time on their email sequence. And they write it, they send it out, it goes out to a bunch of people and then crickets. Right, or their team goes to maybe make cold calls and people are call reluctant. They don’t know how to handle objections, it just feels really gross and slimy to them. And that’s where we kind of come in and help. I started  Blissful Prospecting with my wife, Sarah, actually, she doesn’t work with her business anymore, because we’ve started out actually doing prospecting for people.

So we created those email sequences, I’ve literally created hundreds of email sequences for clients. And that’s how we kind of came up with this framework, was it takes a long time to come up with the messaging to gather the things that you need, and how does this fit into our outbound sequence and our calls and all this other stuff. And we just like through a lot of trial and error, figure that stuff out, and originally started my career out in sales and leading people, and training people, and coaching people. So I wanted to get back into that.

And what we’ve transitioned to in the last year and a half or so is getting back into being a coaching business, a training business and helping people help themselves. So that’s where the frameworks and all that stuff really had to come into play. Because I don’t train with just like a bunch of slides or just talking a lot. I think people need a framework and a system to like wrap their head around that like feels repeatable to them. That is not just like, here’s a template of what to say, here’s a script of how to open your calls. Like it needs to be a framework where people understand kind of the why components of things first.

Billy: Yeah, I agree. I agree. So I want to circle back a little bit to more of your background. Sure. You were talking about Hey, I got into this leading people, coaching them. Tell me just a little bit more about that.

Jason: Yeah, so my first sales job was when I was 18. In college, it was in 2008. So I’m 31 years old. And I got into this position, I was running a house painting business for a big company that recruits college students and teaches them how to basically go door to door. They teach you how to sell a house painting job, which is like, anywhere between three and 10,000 bucks, and then how to run a business and hire your own crews. I didn’t know that that was going to be a sales job.

So I never wanted to get into sales. I wanted to go into forensic science and they kind of positioned it like make money over the summer, build your resume, etc. So we’re like a month out from starting, we do a training right to get started. I’m like, oh, wow, I’m gonna be going door to door, okay.

I was so nervous dude. And I was, I guess it’s not call reluctance, I remember sitting in my car for an hour just like debating whether or not I was going to go door to door. Because I was working in my hometown of 6000 people, a small town people know who I am. I was valedictorian, played on the basketball team, was in the newspaper. And when I started doing it, what I figured out was a couple quick lessons that apply to B2B too. And it’s like you really want to prospect to start a conversation. It’s not about making sales when you prospect.

So when I was going door to door, and I talked a lot about house painting, and like I want to paint your house that didn’t work at all. But when I said hey, I know I probably caught you in the middle of something here. But can we do an estimate maybe next weekend, and then I can tell you a little bit more about what your neighbors are doing, colors you might pick, how to fix that peeling paint up there, etc. So that was one big lesson, was like can basically sell the meeting is kind of the concept there. The other one was just because there’s a neighborhood of houses where nine out of 10 houses need to be painted, or there’s a need there doesn’t mean those people want to do it, or that they value it, or that they can afford it.

And what I found is that if I went to neighborhoods where people did take care of their home, and maybe one out of 10, or two out of every 10 houses needed painting, I could get a lot more leads in those neighborhoods. And it’s another good prospecting lesson where it’s like, don’t just go to where there’s like the biggest need, but like, who cares about this and who like values, the thing that you can help with. So I did that, I did really well, I made $27,000, actually, in that spring and summer for school, and I was like, I love sales, dude, right.

And then the next three years, I was a sales manager for them, recruited. That’s where I got a lot of experience, like working individually with people that didn’t want to go into sales for their career, either I had to teach them how to do sales from scratch, to add a lot of help, and they had great frameworks at that company. And I got experience like leading trainings.

And then I spent two or three years as their marketing director. So I worked with this company for like six or seven years, up to end of 2013. And where I really got the itch to do my own thing was, they never had a formalized, like marketing department. It’s like a $35 million company. One of the big things that they had me do was start an outbound call center. So they’re like, we have a hunch that this huge database we have 10s of thousands of people sign up for estimates with us every year, it’s actually like around 100 plus thousand, but a lot of them don’t close.

So how do we nurture that database and call and set appointments for the people in the field? And then how do we cold call, right? So that was kind of what I went and did was I kind of did it myself at first. I hired a couple people in cubes. Then we had a 15 rep call center, I hired a call center manager. And that’s what kind of got me interested in inside sales.

And then I was like, I want to help other companies do this. Then I did that for a couple years. The segue into  Blissful Prospecting was I just noticed that every B2B company interacted with like, struggled with prospecting. And they were like, that was a cool, cool, cold email you sent me Jason, can you just do that for us? Can you set appointments for us? And that’s how we got started with Blissful Prospecting.

Billy: Awesome, man. I love it. I like how you got a little bit sold on getting into sales, not knowing what you’re getting into.

Jason: Yeah, not an uncommon story.

Billy: Not at all. Not at all. I got one of my jobs, I worked in commercial real estate, and I was supposed to be like an asset manager. So you know, like, hey, make sure we’re profitable, and all the leases get done. Well, turns out they’re like, and we’re going to need you to handle all the renewals, and then doing some of the leasing. And next thing I know, I’m in Pocatello, Idaho, going door to door on other businesses in town trying to get them to move out the shopping center, I manage. So I’m like, okay I’m in this, whether I like it or not.

Jason: Yeah, it’s kind of like one of those, like, I didn’t sign up for this dude but okay, whatever.

Billy: I think it really goes to show you that no matter what job you’re in, at a certain level, you’re in sales. Whether it’s selling your boss on something or your peers on doing a project, like you’re going to be selling. I forget who wrote the book, but “To Sell Is Human”. I think so many of the things he talks about there. If everyone read that book, it would go a long way. So let’s get into your prospecting framework that you’ve built. I want to just give us the overview. And then let’s dive into the details.

Jason: Yeah. So that the thinking behind this framework is really like how do we boil prospecting down into a few like conceptual things that are really easy to understand? And how do we talk about kind of the old way of doing things, versus the new-ish way of doing things?

I don’t really believe that anything with prospecting and selling is like really brand new right now. But there’s an approach that people are still prospecting, like it was 30 years ago, right? 20 years ago,  it’s kind of crazy. They’re doing the equivalent of like, just going through the phonebook and randomly spraying and praying, but they’re just doing it through LinkedIn, and email blast and stuff like that, right. So the framework, there’s three parts to it.

So if you kind of envision like three circles, if you’re listening to this, on the very left, you have a bucket called identify. This is like your ability to find good fit clients, and then knowing who to contact at those companies. So that’s identify good fit ideal client profiles and your personas, who you’re reaching out to. In the middle circle, you have engage. So engage is how do I start conversations with these folks? So that’s your messaging. That’s your sequences. And on the very right on that circle, what you have is convert. So once we start a conversation with someone, they respond to our email, they pick up the phone, respond on LinkedIn, whatever it might be, how do we secure a meeting? So how do we convert and get the sales process started?

Now where you need to do a couple things along the way is between identify and engage, the thing that connects those two is I need to understand my prospects problems, I need to understand their priorities. And I need to lead with that in my messaging in order to start a conversation. The thing that it connects the engage circle and the convert circle is objections, I need to know what the most common objections are going to be. And I need to be able to handle those objections.

So there’s three shifts that you need to make in each of those areas. So the old way of identifying is mass blast, it’s let me just get a big list. Right? That’s really tempting to do these days, because software, I mean, for 19 bucks a month, you can send out as many emails as you want to people, it’s crazy.

Billy: Lists too, like 1000 bucks will give you 10,000 names that match your ICP. It’s crazy.

Jason: So we really need to kind of do the opposite of that. And how do we instead of mass blast to quality first. How do we emulate our best clients right now? The ones we love working with the most, the ones that love us, the most? The people that we typically interact with there, and how can we be more strategic about the list that we’re building, the people we’re going after? And do more account based style, essentially, right? The next shift that we need to make in the engage bucket, that middle bucket when we start conversations, is how do we move from me centric to you centric. So instead of talking about me, dude, and you’d be surprised, Billy. I don’t know if you can hear my dog.

Billy: Everybody loves their dog.

Jason: He’s a little toy poodle, Pepe weighs 10 pounds, he’s harmless. But I see some big companies where they send emails, and it’s hey, Billy, my name is Jason. I’m with  Blissful Prospecting. We have this new solution called this. And we’ve helped XYZ companies, and I would love to chat with you for 30 minutes to share. Some of the most successful companies in the world have reps that prospect exactly like that.

Billy: I get it every day. Yeah, we have this great tool, you should look at it. And there’s no reason for me to look at it in the email. I’m just like, okay, like I have an accounting system in place already. Like, why do I want to change.

Jason: And it’s focused a lot on like the, what we do, and what it is. So I have a good friend, he was on our podcast. And one of the things that he has that is really unique about his experience, is he’s been on the founding sales team of seven different companies. Now, he does advisory work. But he’s been on the ground level of these startups where he’s had to figure out a lot of this stuff himself, he wasn’t pre handed messaging, he talks about this concept. So a lot of us like if we’re selling CRMs, we talk about what it is, oh, CRM solution, and then we talked about what it does, oh, it manages your contacts, it speeds up the time you do this.

And you can do all kinds of automation. But then it really talks about what it means. What it means if I actually have a good CRM is that I don’t waste a bunch of time on admin work, and I can spend more time prospecting and selling. So how do we talk about you the prospect and what it means for you, and get above the features and benefits noise and like what we do. And then the third big shift in that convert bucket is how do we move from like Alec Baldwin? Glengarry Glen Ross, always be closing. How do we move from that?

Because I don’t know about you, it doesn’t feel good when I’m always being closed, right? Or somebody always closing for a meeting and asking me for something. So how can I say, hey, Billy, would love to share with you what companies like x, y, and z are doing that are in a similar space, like how they’re solving this problem, so that you can get something from our time together. I would love to share with you how they’re getting the reps to pick up the phone more and overcome call reluctance, and feel comfortable with the phone calls that they’re doing? So it’s like, there’s something there for you. There’s a promise there that if we spend 30 minutes together, which is a huge ask of your time, you’re gonna get something from that.

Billy: I mean, we all get those cold emails every day. And the ones that I do reply to definitely say, Hey, I’m gonna solve this problem for you. And yeah, and that’s, I think that’s the only way to do it. The rest of them just go straight to junk. So what do you think, Okay, if I’m a rep, I’m putting together these emails, what are some of the tactics that you suggest implementing so that I am going to write an email that engages somebody?

Jason: Well, I think the first thing is like, we need to kind of step back, and like one exercise that I like doing, I call it the path. So the path is, so if you imagine like a box on the left here, I guess I’m looking at up on this side, on the left, so you draw a box, and you call that the current state.

So the current state is, who is this prospect? And how are they fixing this problem right now? And what are the problems associated with doing that? So for example, I worked with a consulting client, still working with them, actually. And they do cost consulting. So they look at companies that are overspending on the utilities, and they say we will renegotiate this and we’ll split the savings with you 50-50. Sounds really like an awesome value prop, but very hard to sell, actually, because it sounds too good to be true. So current state, that CFO, what’s their current state?

Well, the CFO is usually their team is handling all of these vendor relationships right now. One thing their team doesn’t have a lot of is time. And every time something goes wrong with one of their vendors, trash doesn’t get picked up, whatever it might be, that CFO or his or her team, they have to engage with these vendors. And they have to go out and make it happen, make sure they show up, or they got to renegotiate with someone else, and they’re typically not able to do it themselves.

So that’s the current state, they don’t really maybe know that there’s a better way of doing it. But that’s the current state. That’s the first part of the path. So if you envision like X, Y axis, on the x axis, you have time here, and on the y axis above that you have results. So if you go continue going down that path, up above, you have desired future state, and that he have undesired future state. What we need to understand is like what is the desired future state, in this example, of the CFO?

So by the way, desired future state, if you look up on this graph, it curves up and what you are doing in sales is you’re helping people to their desired future state. So the desired future state is, hey, Billy, I asked you, how are things going and you say things are going great… what will come out of your mouth next? Well, for a CFO, it would be our business is profitable, I’m not getting bogged down with like manual work, my team is able to focus on the things that I want them to focus on.

And we could proactively look for ways to help our companies save money. Right? We’re not overspending on areas where we don’t need to be, well, what is the undesired future state? This is the thing you’re helping people avoid in sales. Well, undesired future state, if we continue using this example, is we’re overspending in areas and I don’t know it.

I don’t want to be in that position as a CFO. Right. So now what we can do with our messaging is think about a really simple formula is like problem-result. And I can kind of talk about the reply method, specifically for cold emails. But the formula essentially, it’s like, people, I hear people like you have these problems, and here’s how they’re fixing it. Okay, so hey, Billy, I don’t know if you’re like a lot of CFOs that I talked to, but one thing I hear is they get really bogged down dealing with their vendors directly, specifically with waste.

And when someone doesn’t show up to pick up the trash, their team has to get involved in it’s the lowest thing on their priority list that just gets bumped to the top. So something like that, right. I’m talking about things that are emotional there, where it’s like things, they hate doing, things that they don’t want to do. I didn’t talk about and they’re wasting 10% of their…, it’s like, it doesn’t need to be this huge logic driven thing.

So that’s the problem. I’d love to share w

ith you how similar companies that we’re working with, like XYZ are solving for this problem right now. And if nothing else, show you some areas where they found they were overspending, and they’re recuperating some of that costs, like something like that. That same messaging framework works with cold calls as well. And I said it out loud here in this podcast, but it would sound almost exactly the same. I think that’s one of the big things to do is I know, you have a lot of marketers who listen to this podcast. What’s the role of marketing? Oh, rule of seven, right? People need to see your message seven times in order to take action.

It’s probably even more than that now. But I think people treat outbound sequences, like, well, I sent that in an email, if I say it over the phone or thinking and know that I’m just repeating the same thing. Not really, actually, dude. Like, if I sent you an email yesterday, Billy about something that I called you today about it, I guarantee you’re not going to know what that email said, you might like remember the email.

And I’m not going to be like, Billy, the reason why I’m calling is because of this reason that like, I’m not going to read off the email, but the same general message, okay, that’s what I’m saying, the same general message you can use. So that’s, that’s kind of the messaging framework, we have something called the reply method, where this it kind of fits into that framework. I’ll pause here, though, because we’re kind of getting into a bunch of stuff.

 

Yeah, so that’s, that’s essentially what we need to do. Before we even write an email, we need to understand the path that our prospects are on, where they’re heading, where they want to be, and where they want to avoid being. And if we have that in play, now we have empathy for our prospects. Now we understand a little bit more about what’s going on right now, what the problems are with that, where they’re heading, what they’re trying to avoid.

Billy: Awesome. Now, you’ve already touched on this a little bit, but I think where you’re going with more of the “teach don’t take”, even in the email, where it’s like, Hey I think sometimes the email where it’s like, let us show you a demo. Like, if I’m already like, on your website, I’ve expressed some interest and then I get this email. Yeah, I might convert. But if it’s cold, a demo, I feel like is all about the company not me. But having some type of consultation, I think goes a long way. Because I’ll reply to those. If they’re like, hey, let us show you a couple ways to help you with this problem. I’ll say, okay, like, maybe it’s your product, maybe it’s not another product I end up using. But if I can learn something, or at least talk to you.

Jason: Yeah. And that could even be if you’re creating podcasts like we’re doing. If you got really great content, that’s an even better way to do it. So like, when I’m prospecting, sometimes what I’ll do is like, Yeah, one of the problems I hear that a lot of sales teams are having right now is like, they really want the reps to make more calls. But they struggle, because they’re dealing with a lot of call reluctance. People don’t want to pick up the phone and make more calls.

I wrote an article on LinkedIn, it’s gotten a ton of engagement and ideas in there on how you can help your reps overcome call reluctance. Can I send it your way? Or I just link to it right in there? And the next email, hey, any thoughts? Or hey, next email could be Hey, any thoughts on the article, would love to hop on a call and share with you how some of the other teams are working with similar to you’re dealing with this right now?

Billy: Yeah. What do you find is the right number of emails to follow up with somebody? Because is it one? Is it 20? What do you generally find is like, okay, after this number, if we haven’t got a response, it’s probably best to abandon course, for the moment and try back later.

Jason: Yeah. So like, I think the bigger question there is, like, what’s the contact strategy and like, that’s where sequencing and cadencing comes in. General rules of thumb, Salesloft, Outreach, Vanillasoft, Apollo, all of the sales engagement companies will tell you something very similar, is we reach out to a cold prospect, typically, we want 12 to 15 touches over the course. So those touches are across two to three different channels. Email, phone, social, and you want to at least use email and phone in my opinion. So when you combine two channels together, it’s almost twice as effective contact rate. Three is not three times effective, it’s not quite that high. But email and phone, you can’t go wrong starting with that. So 12 to 15 touches, two to three channels, 30 to 45 days. And the pattern that I typically use is something like this.

We’re going to do on a Tuesday, we’re going to do what I call a triple touch a triple touches, I’m going to call email, and then hit on social. On that Thursday, could be 48, or 72 hours apart. So it could be Tuesday, Thursday, Monday, Wednesday, Tuesday, Friday, something like that, I’m going to then call and email in those days. So that’s five touches in one week. And you could repeat that for three weeks. Okay, so that’s like a really good guideline framework to start with. So in that, you’re probably gonna have six to eight emails, probably gonna have four to six phone calls, a couple social touches. That’s a good starting line. From there, you can kind of customize and look at, I have a client, for example, they set most of their meetings off Twitter messages.

That’s just what works for them, they got a good Twitter presence, and they get a lot of meetings that way. So you know what, no cold calling for them. Like they don’t, they don’t need to do that as part of the sequence, they’re going to do email and Twitter. But until you have like something that you’ve tried and let the data tell you what’s working, then I would go all in on that. So one thing to take into consideration though, is just because people may not pick up the phone as much, and you may not get a lot of meetings live over the phone, doesn’t mean that leaving the voicemail isn’t helping with the pickup rates on the phone.

It’s like a good voicemail tip is at the end of the voicemail say, Hey, Billy, and I’m actually about to send you an email right now, with that case study in it. And the subject line of the email is going to be Hey, Billy just left a voicemail. That has a pretty high open rate. So now I’m using, I’m actually creating a multi channel experience for you. I’m engaging on the phone and telling you to check out the email. I might engage you on LinkedIn and say, Hey, did you see the case study this sent him an email? If not, here it is. It’s like creating a multi-channel experience for the prospect. It has to feel like a multi-channel experience for them.

Billy: Great. I love it, man. I love it. This is great. Okay. So to go back to your prospecting framework, we got, I took us off off track there for a little bit. But on that convert, last step. Anything we haven’t talked about that, that we need to hit?

Jason: Yeah, objection handling is really the key there. Right. So I think with objection handling where people, the problem is that people have rebuttals, right. So it’s like, Okay, I’m going into a meeting. Well, yeah I’ve been talking to a lot of other people today, and they felt the same way.

But here’s what they did. And it’s like we say stupid shit like that, right? Hopefully. Yeah, you can cuss in your podcast. They say stupid stuff like that. It’s like you have these canned rebuttals, not interested, well, Hey, I’ll need about 30 seconds of your time, it’s not like, you’re not really acknowledging the person. And what feels a lot like is like, I don’t know, if you’ve ever felt really misunderstood, like in your personal life, maybe with your spouse, or like a friend that like does something that just really just makes it mad.

They don’t acknowledge that what they did was messed up, or they don’t acknowledge how you’re feeling or say, Hey, I can see you’re frustrated, totally understandable, by the way, because I didn’t follow through and do that thing I said I was going to do. When that doesn’t happen, we’re just like, Ah right, we’re just totally on guard. And the way that you need to do this is really think about how you can disarm the prospect.

So you do that in a couple ways. So the framework is, if you imagine two circles together, you have empathize in one circle, and you have validate in the other circle. And we need to do those two things in combination before we can go to the offer stage and talk about what to do next. So real simply what this might sound like is prospects respond, not interested. So if we think about why someone would respond and say not interested, there’s a lot of different reasons why.

You might have caught them at a bad time, they might be in the middle of something they might genuinely not be interested, right, inwhat you have to have to say or what you’re doing. But odds are, it’s probably just a reflex response. Because they don’t know enough about you or what you’re selling to not be interested in it. So what we need to do is first empathize.

So whatever we think that they’re thinking or what’s on their mind, or why they’d say that, let’s just say that. Well, hey, Billy sounds like I caught you in the middle of something. And then validate, I need to let them know that that’s okay. That they don’t want to take the call right now, because I caught them in the middle of something. Hey, Billy, dude, sounds like I caught you in the middle of something. And yeah, I could totally understand if that’s the case, because I’m just calling you out of the blue here. Something like that. Don’t focus on the specific words that I’m using focus on what I am doing, I’m going to empathize with you and talk a little bit about what’s on your mind, then I’m going to validate that.

And in doing that, that’s going to hopefully disarm me, it doesn’t work every time, obviously. But that’s going to disarm you. And then I can go into an offer and say hey but would it be a bad idea if I just took a couple seconds here, I can tell you why I’m calling because they did a bunch of research actually on your company ChatFunnels. And I wanted to share with you why I’m calling, and then you can decide if it’s relevant for you, and you want to keep talking cool.

Yeah, so I’m going to do like a kind of a permission based element there. Sandler Training kind of popularized some of that kind of stuff. Yeah. So that’s how you handle like an objection, how can I empathize with the person and then validate that’s a very important piece, let you know that it’s okay that you don’t want to talk. And then I can go into the next part of it.

Billy: Okay, I love it. Before we wrap up. Anything else I should have asked you that I didn’t?

Jason: Know, like, one kick that I’m really on right now is get a lot of people are talking about empathy. But I don’t know if they understand what that actually is, or what it means. And it’s really that, like, I can kind of sit in this feeling with the person. So you might not have done the job of the prospect. But I think everyone knows what it’s like to be interrupted. I think everyone knows what it feels like to feel impatient, or frustrated, or that someone’s trying to sell you something. So you need to bring that into the equation when you’re prospecting. And really think about what does it feel like, if I am on the receiving end of what I am doing? What does that feel like?

And that right there, if you can really think like, if there’s one Keystone habit with prospecting, I would say it’s this approach of you first, me second. Every interaction at every stage, identify, engage, convert at every stage of this, I’m thinking, Billy first. What would Billy think of this? Would Billy find this valuable? What’s Billy feeling right now? And then I can think about what I need from the interaction. If you just made that a habit, like it would completely change how you write emails, how you engage people over the phone, how you objection handle, how you sell how you market? How you brand your company, it would just change everything.

Billy: That is a great point. I think when you’re early on in a role, where you’re where you’re interacting with people, you’re very conscious of this, like, if you just started cold calling, you’re like, Well I mean, like people don’t want to get interrupted and all this, I better be nice, and it makes you a little nervous. But I think after you’ve done it for a while, you kind of forget about it. I mean, you shouldn’t but it’s easy to because you just get in the routine. But you’re right. Think about the prospect first and what matters to them. Awesome. Jason, if people want to reach out to you and continue the conversation, what’s the best way?

Jason: Two ways I’d recommend, most of our stuff all of our stuffs at blissfulprospecting.com. So if you’re like just looking for a ton of free content, I’d recommend checking out the reply method guide on there. That’s kind of like the structure messaging framework for emails that can be applied to cold calls as well. And if you’re looking to get like actual help, we have a couple different programs like one of them’s a boot camp where you can kind of get course and some coaching and that sort of stuff. We also do engagements with companies directly. So all that information is on the website. And then I also post content every day on LinkedIn.

So just look me up Jason Bay on LinkedIn. And I’m posting every single week day prospecting tips and videos and all kinds of, there’s a lot of free stuff out there that you can check out if you’re interested in this.

Billy: Okay, awesome. Thank you, Jason. We’ll chat later.

Jason: Cool, thanks, man.